Showing posts with label PC. Show all posts
Showing posts with label PC. Show all posts

Friday, March 7, 2008

The SFF barebones PCs I don't like less than the others

In the last post, I heartily rejected the long-term practicality of small-form-factor (SFF) barebones PCs.  In particular, I was ragging on my old box that's stuck in the past, nearly un-upgradeable.  The problem is the motherboard and chassis are a custom pair, so I can't just browse for a new motherboard online to attach a more modern CPU to.  Okay, that's one problem - the other is that mine is a hot, loud pentium 4 rig that I don't really want to use as a 100 watt router, firewall, or severely space-limited home server.  But...


If you're dead-set on a small-form-factor barebones PC, the current line-up of processors provide a little bit of future proofing.  Today's SSF barebones PC contenders seem to be ASUS, MSI, and Shuttle for the most part.  There are others of course, but these are currently the most widely available. 


There are a few I kind of like and with an AMD AM2 socket or Intel LGA775 socket (with a chipset for the core CPUs, like core 2 duo or quad core processors, rather than the old P4 and D units)  motherboard you can run them fast and hot now with a powerful processor and then when that fast and hot turns into slow and hot in a few years, you can swap in a low wattage CPU like the AMD Athlon/Sempron LE with their 45 watt TDP or the Intel Conroe-L Celeron with its 35 watt TDP.  With a processor from one of these lines you can drop the power consumption down to around 50 watts or so and be fairly comfortable using it as a file server or something else that runs around the clock in the background.  Somehow I doubt these barebones come with truly tweak-able BIOSes but if so, you could potentially undervolt the processor even further and see a box with a Conroe-L Celeron (420/430/440) get down to 40 watts or so.  Add an eSATA controller card and you can pair it with an external hard drive box and make a reasonable file/media server.


Sadly, I haven't really noticed anything new in the the SFF department recently.  Shuttle has kept up with the development curve fairly well but makes a pretty formulaic box.  The rigs I see on offer from MSI and ASUS are the same ones that have been around for the last couple of years.  


In terms of making purchasing decisions, I'd probably go with a motherboard with decent on-board video capabilities.  The AM2 socket and Nvidia chipset with GeForce 6150 make for a solid choice and provide DVI and VGA dual monitor support.  The more powerful integrated graphics route will let you run the box cooler, less cramped, and yet still be relevant.  If your idea is to end up with a headless box for server purposes then the graphics chipset doesn't really matter and the weaker graphics processing unit might cut down on power consumption.  Low-end video cards are pretty cheap too and still out-perform the IGP unit so you can be fairly well served with a low-profile Nvidia 8400 GT or ATI 2400 XT.


There are a few barebones I kind of like - namely the ASUS T3, P1, and P3.




I actually prefer the ASUS T3 in black, but it's only listed in old, weak Intel garb at newegg and the pictures are difficult to make out.  The AM2 socket ASUS T3 offers DVI and dual monitor support out of the box.  I have used the Nvidia GeForce 6150 for an HTPC build I put together last year.  The latest Nvidia drivers really bet a lot of milage out of the 6150 IGP setup, that HTPC has both a 720p LCD HDTV and a 22" LCD monitor (1680x1050) connected and runs HD from a PCI tuner pulling in over-the-air HD without much issue.  The P3 also has an onboard eSATA port on the rear I/O panel, which is a big plus for storage expansion. 




The ASUS P1 can be had with a similar AM2 socket motherboard with the 6150 on-board video including DVI and dual monitor capability.  It's very similar to the T3's motherboard offering but lacks the eSATA.  Both the T3 and P1 have only two expansion card slots but they are full height.



The P3 is similar to the P1 but a little more professional looking and with four low-profile expansion slots rather than 2 full-height like the P3 it has a bit more expandability.  I find the shuttle stuff a bit over-priced and the current line-up of MSI stuff a little bland.  And watch out for anything that doesn't have a gigabit LAN port.


I think I've made it clear, I'd personally avoid these little boxes with their non-standard motherboards.  That said, there are some interesting little boxes out there these days and they're much more capable and versatile than mine has ever been.

Sunday, February 24, 2008

Why SFF barebone PCs are a bad idea...

In 2004 I was looking into spending a chunk of change I had been alloted for a PC purchase. I had been given a new laptop sometime earlier for a work project, so I didn’t need to spend the cash on a laptop as it was originally intended. Like my previous purchase, I decided I’d go big and maximize my dollar by building my own system (sort of). I wanted something fresh and new and a lot of LCD real estate. I had introduced myself to the likes of googlegear.com (now zipzoomfly.com for obvious reasons), newegg.com, and tigerdirect.com. I was looking at media-centric small form factor (SFF) PCs and thinking about getting twin 17” LCD monitors. I found the MSI MEGA 865 Deluxe and thought, “This is what I need! I don’t want to have something stuck under a desk somewhere, and I don’t want to have something monstrous if I have nowhere to hide it. This will be great for my growing library of music and videos, and I can sit it right there on my desk.” It seemed like a great plan.



At some point in my planning I came across Trigem’s Kloss barebones PCs and started to plan my build around the KL-i915a rather than the MSI. It may have been because of the innovative internal design but I think the real reason was the PCIe-x16 video card slot and gigabit ethernet. It was a forward looking chipset versus the older MSI feature set.

I finally pulled the trigger and bought my supplies: The Kloss KL-I915A (~$350), a 2.8 GHz Intel Pentium 4 processor (~$180), 2x512 MB of ram (can’t recall the price >$100), an MSI XT-TDI128E (~$150 I think) X600XT video card, and a WD SATA hard drive. All told, my total for the computer was probably around $800. Upon getting it, I discovered a fault in the onboard NIC, as it wasn’t letting me connect. I found out my warranty was managed by some seemingly random company, AMAX, and had a bit of a tough time getting them to deal with my problem as Trigem was going bankrupt, less than a month after I bought the computer. Once I finally got to talk with a tech at AMAX, he figured out there was a real hardware issue and I returned the computer for diagnostics and an eventual motherboard swap. And it only cost me ~$40 in shipping if I remember correctly. Everything worked as it should upon return.


Unfortunately the Kloss never got much use. My laptop was plenty sufficient back then and as it was with me all day, it was kept current. The Kloss languished and I eventually came to resent it somewhat. It’s was bit loud and it’s only gotten more so. Between the PSU fan, the rear 7 cm fan, the whinny video card fan, and the 92 mm CPU heatsink fan, there’s plenty of noise. And the 2.8 GHz Pentium processor (model # 520) didn’t help keep things under control in the heat department. I can get it to idle at 45 degrees C if it’s in a cool, well ventilated spot, but put it into an even moderately confined space and the idle temp will soar towards 60. I’ve also been trying to watch my energy consumption lately and the P4 Kloss sucks about 130 Watts at idle with the video card (compared to 60 Watts of the cheap ~$100 AMD Sempron-based PC I’ve built fairly recently). If I dump the cards (video and otherwise), disable just about every unused port in the bios and the like, I can get it down to about 90 watts. Using ‘Silent’ mode, a motherboard over/underclocking feature built into the Kloss with a button on the front, set to 50% (~1.5 GHz) I only saw about a 2 Watt saving over the ‘Normal’ mode, and maybe a slight reduction is ‘suck-hole’ fan speed (the least obtrusive of the fans).


The PSU sits right below where the expansion slots reside on the motherboard, and it seems it heats them up quite a bit. I get video crashes every once in a while (and quite easily under stress). I tried adding a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 at one point and while it worked better than I though for a P4 system with 1GB of ram and an older X600 Video card, it obviously was susceptible to the heat emanating from the PSU, as it would start to become unstable after a bit of use.


I haven’t really known what to do with the Kloss recently. It’s never been my ‘main’ PC and it isn’t even my current, primary desktop rig. It really just sits. I now think I’m going to pass it onto my parents. It’s not a current PC but it’s still a step up for them and more than they need really. Besides, they give their home PC such spare use that it will sleep most of the time, so the high power consumption shouldn’t be of any consequence.


I’ve pretty much come the resounding conclusion that while SFF PCs seem like a great space-saving idea, they aren’t, especially when it’s sitting unused because it has absolutely no upgradability. The Kloss’ design ingenuity that inspired the split thermal chambers ended up producing a custom motherboard that I can’t re-purpose elsewhere and necessitated a custom PC chassis that I can’t fit a modern motherboard into. Couple that
with Intel’s customer-unfriendly chip designs which won’t allow a Core series (core solo/duo, core 2 duo/quad) 775 socket chip from working on a P4/D series 775 socket compatible motherboard. The whole thing becomes a throw away box rather quickly. In that way, it’s like a laptop, but without the mobile functionality.

So I haven't mentioned what came of the twin 17" monitors (I think they were 17" rather than 19"... I think). At the time they were about $350 apiece. I ended up scrapping the 2 x 17" @ $350/monitor when I stumbled upon a $100 rebate on a Samsung 213T 21.3" LCD monitor for $700.

Photo grabbed from pcmag.com

It has turned out to be the just about the only saving grace from this build, along with not actually paying for it myself. I still use it and it's great. I'll write more about it when I write about my monitor experiences, which will also include a 19" Hanns-G LCD I scored for $126 and a 22" Westinghouse I picked up for $200+tax during a black friday sale in 2006.